Nobody

Well, FDL are a bunch of chumps. Nobody sicks sics the attack dogs better. You don’t get to self-define language. If you basically use a Rude Pundit-style metaphors to describe women, or the C-word to describe who YOU want to describe, claiming that you are a feminist gay male who has reclaimed the word doesn’t really cut it. Hey, I just pooped some ice cream, wanna cone? I can’t even begin to explain, but why not head over to Tom Watson’s and read for yourself. We’ve been on the other end of these fights and we know very well about language and offensiveness, and we’ve defended ourselves using our words, not by flinging crap around. If your response to criticism is to invoke the term “mau mau” and claiming to fly in the face of “political correctness” doesn’t really pass the smell test. And for the record, somehow the Rude Pundit is OK. He’s working in an oeuvre. Slipping in and out of a Rude Pundit style does not seem to be OK because it appears to legitimize the style as a regular part of your discourse. And if you don’t agree with me, you can tell me so, and it will be OK, cuz I can handle it like that! Give it to me baby!

92 Responses to “Nobody”


  • Here is Jane Hamsher’s response to Tom Watson in his comments:

    “The day I have to make the blog a slave to the PC language police who want to mau-mau it into sterility by throwing around loaded and innacurate race- and gender-baiting accusations is the day I shut it down. Nothing either author has ever written has been even slightly mysoginistic; both have gone to extraordinary lengths to support choice, registration of women voters, and the elevation of female voices and leadership both in the blogosphere and the Democratic party. This attack is hyperbolic and erected on straw. A few words you find ill-chosen and suddenly they work for Karl Rove? I’m all for colorful forms of expression, but the lack of context here renders the critique rather shallow.”

    I find it filled with a couple of ironic gems. Hyperbole is only a one way street I guess. Hyperbole with sexist language is the OK kind. Hyperbole with Karl Rove is the not OK kind, apparently. Good times.

  • I certainly am not one to shy away from profanity, and I do think we’re too sensitive about language. But I really dislike the C-bomb. It makes me uncomfortable, even when women use it, because it reminds me of using the n-word. I guess everyone has their line in the sand, and that one’s mine.

    But the real topper was TRex coming over to call Tom Watson that. Not only uncalled for, but lazy and uncreative.

  • I agree, the Rude Pundit can do whatever he wishes to do in his mom’s basement.

    and personally, I like the word Cobag, what’s the fuss? 😉

  • That would be “sics”, dude.

  • As long as people realize that their language is a choice. If they choose to use it in the face of an argument against it, that is their call. The issue is whether their language is crucial to their argument, and if the point of their posts are to make a point without collateral damage, perhaps their choices are not the wisest. We have defended the use of the word “cobag.” We did so in a straightforward and fair way and we did not call people that disagreed with us the C-word. Sexist language and insults are incredibly pervasive, and many times unintended. The extent to which society is marinated in Patriarchy is extreme. And those cats just do not get it. It is fine to be uncomfortable with the “language police,” but that doesn’t stop people having a discussion. FDL behaves like a stomp on your throat monolithic chunderloaf generator a lot of times. And their own actions prove it over and over.

  • How come strikethrough doesn’t work in posts, but it can work other places?

    Anyhow, Seitzo, I double dog dare ya to spelling flame Jane on “misogynistic.” If you say “A for effort, you knew there was a Y in there somewhere!” I would just die.

  • Anyhow, Seitzo, I double dog dare ya to spelling flame Jane on “misogynistic.”

    Consider it done, dude.

    By the way, she’s a big Jason Pierce fan, FYI.

  • Oh well, I posted it, but I don’t see it showing up yet.

  • Sweet, it’s there now. I kind of pussed out though, and didn’t call Hamsher out specifically.

  • Good work on the spelling flame, Seitz. Just saw it.

  • Seitz, the multiple ironies of your comment are amazing. Also the one above- “pussed out”- please say you meant a cat. This is an interesting debate- I think we’ll keep having it over and over, because some people just don’t get it.

  • Also the one above- “pussed out”- please say you meant a cat.

    I was going to change that, but decided to leave it in for effect.

  • PP, you’re such a good person.

    Please enjoy that! It’s the last time you’ll ever hear it in your life from me!

    No, but you are.

    “Stupid Idiot!” is my phrase I use a lot. Is anyone offended by it?

    Those FDL people seem to think they’re too cool for school. Do you guys read Tom Watson regularly? He’s such a great guy. And to be attacked like he was is so wrong. They were so off the mark.

  • Jeez.

    Does this mean I have to freeze more urine? My bladder is getting seriously overworked. Not to mention my wang.

    Which I did.

  • As for the topic at hand, which is sadnly not wangalicious no matter how hard I may try to make it, I shall enter no real comment except to say that I generally only call Michelle Malkin, Ann(e) Coulter and men the c-word.

    I have lately come around to the feeling that it is a far better thing to rise above the insulting argument style and use logic, facts and a boomingly authoritative, yet somehow devilishly handsome, voice to win these contests, while simultaneously slipping various toxic substances into the offending person’s abode.

    Toxic substances like rotten tilapia, week old breaded cod filets and frozen bodily excretions.

  • I once had to design an addition to a Georgian style rowhouse that was composed irregularly, in an English picturesque fashion (don’t worry, this goes somewhere; I’ve got Serious Pants on in more ways than one). It rapidly became painfully clear that the original designer had masterful command of balance and proportion, and that the addition was not going to approach the level of sophistication of the original…we quickly decided to make the addition regular and repetitive.

    Using edge language is the same. A Master, such as Rudie, makes it look effortless but when tried by someone who is not as skilled, or not as talented, GREAT CARE (not to mention a full, painful awareness of one’s own limitations) must be exercised to prevent going over the line and ending up with an unappealing mess. At worst, it can distract entirely from what you are trying to do.

    Like it or not (and regardless of what ‘political correctness’ dictates – I think there is hardly such a thing anymore, except when someone pulls it out of the last ditch defense bag) language has subtexts, and they need to be taken into account when using it, especially on a Capital S Serious Pants blog such as FDL.

    I mean, it’s just funny when Ace of Spades complains about homos shoving thier agendas down his thorat in complete blissful sefl-ignorance, because no one is paying much attention to him. But you know something like that will be thrown around in the sub-MSM and used to point out how anti-women THe Left really is.

    It was a poor choice of idiom, and trying to defend it is not going to work out well. It’s unfortunate cuz Usually FDL does a better job.

    If they’re not careful, they’ll end up emus.

  • Extra tater tots for TC, and several huzzahs!

  • PP- I was directed over to Tom W’s this morning by BG. After reading numerous comments, I sent this email to her which she demanded I put directly in your comments section… so without further ado… the email I sent BG:

    “I just read the latest additions to Tom’s post … I don’t think I have ever heard Pinko Punko sound so commanding! Of course I usually only read PP’s funny comments on your blog. I had to think though, for a moment, I was hearting Pinko Punko for taking on Erasmus and for doing it so well!”

  • Yay! Jennifer has now had the 3B! chip implanted in her brain!

    Jennifer, nothing, and I mean, nothing will make any sense from now on.

    Don’t worry, it’s ok. The chundermuffins will be there for you always.

    I don’t think Jennifer ever saw Melon Ghost. I’m going to have to show her.

  • ooooOooooOOOOOoooOOOOOoooOOOOO!

    MELON GHOST!!!!!!!!

  • Hee hee, Jennifer, everyone should do as BG says!*

    *except watch Studio 60

    or defer to her baking judgement

    I just snarked like that to cover up my blushes.

  • Well, she’ll be judging my baking this year so I’ll do whatever she says… within reason… I will NOT watch one more episode of Studio 60!

    Okay… where do I find the melon ghost???

  • I split my Serious Pants on that post.

    Truth.

  • TC, I can see your doodle!

  • yeah, I went totally commando today.

    Good thing the Ghost Melon was not around.

    “I’m Ghost Melon! Im all Wooo0000oOOOOOo in ur shortz!”

  • I’m in yr lake, riding yr emu.

  • i’m in ur cookies resetting ur cache

  • Jennifer, you are correct. You’d think Pinko would be start enough to suck up to the Cookie Chair Queen.

    Oh well. We’ll be enjoying our prizes while he is crying.

  • My fans love me whether I’m in comedic or tragic mode.

  • Fans? Someone’s got his ego on tonight.

  • For me the issue is not so much the word but the attitude; use whatever words you want, but understand what they mean to other people, and if they have a legitimate or even sincere-but-in-your-opinion-misguided belief, don’t jump up their ass. In other words, just don’t be a dick.

    No offense.

  • Thers,

    You gotta have a dialog to realize what their real attitude, and I don;t think the people starting the dialog strike me as concern trolls, and then, when the cats you talk to blow their stacks, then you probably realize that they are dicks, even if you agree with their politics, or if they were your real world pals, you have all those other things with which to balance out their oocassional dickitude. In this case, it doesn’t seem like those cucumbers really give 1 or two shits what I think. I think that makes them dicks, and if you think that they got jumped on, they sure can dish out a lot more than they can take. Don’t hate me. I’m funny that way. Thanks for commenting though, you know we’re comment _____ around here. Oh, you didn’t know what I was gonna say because I’m not a language choad!

  • All I need to know about Pachacutec can be summed up in the following two excerpts:

    1) “Nice try, Tom. Your argument would hold if we’d never mocked any male appearances. But it doesn’t, cuz we do.”

    This little nugget shows that Pachacutec both doesn’t understand what sexism actually is, and hasn’t been listening to any of the arguments presented.

    2) “By the way, if you’re such a regular FDL reader, you’d know how to spell my screen name, and know it has nothing to do with sky diving. But as a latino American, I find the fact that you’re too culturally imperialistically myopic to recongize an Inca name to be highly illustrative, not to mention offensive.

    Why do you hate latinos, Tom?”

    Inca:Latino::Pachacutec:In my future reading plans.

  • Yeah, I just jumped on the Inka wagon too, Auguste. My comment is currently hanging out in Watson’s moderation queue.

  • He does mention in the thread somewhere that he has Peruvian and Latino descent. I think though that this “attack when criticized” makes you look like a munchwagon, and also seems to magnify unintentional or imagined slights and make them the equivalent to actual and intentional slights. Plus, I think the argument from hypocrisy doesn’t really save anyone. I could be the biggest hypocrite in the world because my shit may be less like ice cream than I have claimed, but yours most certainly isn’t fudge ripple, no what I’m saying?

    Thanks, kids, for the input.

  • that total thread is bizarro-land. i get where you’re coming from, and where tom is too. i dont agree with tom, but if i were the subject of criticism, i would like to think i would at least agree to disagree instead of you know, acting like a kindergartener.

  • Auguste, the #2 comment you copy and pasted above led me to ask him … are you joking? Please say you’re joking!

    Then he replied with a very snarky explanation of what satire means.

    As if!

    Dork! Stupid Idiot!

    I mean, I am way cooler than them. I know what satire is, plus!

    I knew what PP meant when he wrote “learned cucumber.”

    🙂

    Did you read the person who wrote…learned cucumber (WTF??!)

    🙂 — That cracked me up.

    Neddie Jingo’s going to write a post, or maybe already has, about that guy saying that FDL are all punk rock and Tom Watson’s Guy Lombardo.

    Yeah, right! Dork! Stupid Idiot!

  • Thers, you have VIOLATED the 3B! language rules. You may live in a world where your mommy doesn’t love you, but 3B! does not. UC’s mommy loves everyone and AG hearts Fish. If you continue to use banned language AG will be forced to have YOU banned and ask Pinko get out his Photoshop and go all flights of fancy on your tuckus.

  • Hey, so while we are on the subject: Why is dick ok for us but not the c-word?

    I am genuinely confused. They both seem derogatory, but yet our society has accepted dick as ok. Why?

  • because ‘dick’ is derogatory of the dominant male patriarchy, not the oppressed women. duh! what so-called-liberal arts college did you graduate from?

  • What AIF said. Also, Chuckles, imagine your question but with “honky” for “dick” and “n***er” for “the c-word.”

  • Fan…. as in “Nascar Fan” perhaps? We really just watch for the explosions and because getting drunk to The Peoples Court is so 80’s. heh, fans.

  • That is IT! Chuckles Howard and AIF for encouraging him — you are BANNED.

  • Pinko Punko: Whoops. I was clumsy above. The ass-jumper-uppers & dicks I meant to refer to in my comment were the FDL people who seem to be taking this stuff way too personally, not you. You’re right that they really don’t seem to be interested in having an exchange about this, and that’s a problem, not to mention annoying.

    Sorry I botched the point I was trying to make. I actually agree with you on this.

  • That makes a lot more sense with your post at your place- I was thinking that the comment here and your post didn’t match!

  • I should know better than to post sober.

  • why am i encouraging him?

    i was speaking without an ounce of sarcasm. methinks you flay the banned-stick too easily!!!!!!!!

    plus, what is up with the freakin marshmallows!! those are so gross.

  • You should know better than to encourage that foul mouthed sexless Chuckiepants. That’s why you are banned.

    If you don’t link the mellows, don’t buy them. We got like 100 days of shopping, so you will get other options.

  • I don’t think Jennifer ever saw Melon Ghost. I’m going to have to show her.

    Now that is just dirty talk.

    My sense is that anyone who has ever invoked the “fighting the PC police” defense really means, “I am invoking my right to be an emu”. Screaming “PC police” is a bullicream move. Either you argue why it was okay to say what you say, or you apologize. Simple. No invoking your inky ancestry or listing how you are dedicated to the cause as street cred. Deal or go home.

    I have also come to the conclusion that JH has about as much integrity as Kenny Melemuman. She just happens to agree with more of my politics. Still leaves the same sticky residue though. A, B, and C would not be enough to clean it, it would take a VOOM.

  • Oh, and Pinko is just a big GRRRLLL!!!11!!!!!1!

  • Seriously, that is gay male slang. It is not perjorative. Thank you for your compliment.

    Sad as it makes me, I think the Hall of Emu just made themselves an associate member.

    Ha, I said member.

    When 3B is uberbloggo of the world, and Capt. Trollypants is Defense Secretary, I shall fire King Rolo at every member of the Emu Hall of Fame. I will start with the hoariest Que’emu and will go to the lowest baby cucumber there is. There will be nothing but craters of glass, and caramel.

  • As far as your comments, Tom, as I understand it, you got caught in the automod due top the word cunt, which historically was hurled in the comments as an epithet and insult to Jane, so it got put in automod for review before posting.

    Checkmate, baby cucumber!

  • PP, edit the C-word with some *** if you wish. I just had to put it up in its original glory for all to see.

    What a chowderhead! Enough with that guy!

  • Hiya PP,

    You know I also found your input instructive, partly because I’m an instinctive asshole and bona fide punk, so of course I was on FDL’s “side”, but you really captured my ear so I thought I’d track you down and say what a colorful blog you have here. I look forward to seeing more of you oot and aboot.

  • thanks FP- you are totally welcome here, even if ya wanna hate. We are pretty mello yello over here-

  • What AIF said. Also, Chuckles, imagine your question but with “honky” for “dick” and “n***er” for “the c-word.”

    In my fraternity days, I called this one dude a honky. He was black. Everyone thought it was the funniest damn thing ever. I was a little cnfused until I saw Live and Let Die and I figured out what it meant. Then the incident was even funnier to me.

    I don’t think that honky and the n-word are comparable to dick and the c-word. The n-word comes from an institution of slavery and was widely used to demean and dehumanize. It isn’t like men in the pre-modern times were running around rampantly calling on their wives the c-word and saying things like, “C-words can’t vote, that is crazy!” I have only rarely heard the c-word and furthermore, it isn’t like you hear women running saying, “Hey, c-word, how was your day?” or something. Hell, in England it is just another insult. I rarely use it myself, but only because everyone else tends to think you are mysongist even if you are calling a dude one. This is peculiar.

  • Chuckles, I’m not gonna get into into with you. I think you know if I called you the most pathetic disgusting sloppy p***y, for that to be an insult to you, it might have to degrade people that have them, because I would basically just be calling you a pathetic disgusting sloppy woman. Now, get with the program! It isn’t confusing at all. Also, don’t you ever read Seitzo’s spelling flames? It is misogynist. I knew you knew I knew that you knew that you were gonna say that, so I will meta’ly say “at least you knew there was a Y in there somewhere!”

  • mysongist

    Umm, yeah I do know how to spell misogynist. That was a big typo that looks like I am attacking you for not using my suggestions over at SOTD.

    I still think this is much different from the n-word. If the c-word is so bad, then why isn’t the b-word? For that matter, so should dick and anything having to do with another word for donkey.

  • Chuckwagon, we’re not 7 year olds- things are always black and white. There are shades. bitch is bad, but try prying it from society’s cold dead hand, so there may not be hope to destroy all misogynist language, but at least we don’t have to pave the way for the inclusion of more. Stop being a dick!

    Guess what? That is not nearly is bad, and I don’t want to hear how life is unfair to DUDES with WANGS, however MASSIVE and UNSIGHTLY.

  • I am not saying it is unfair to dudes, I am saying that I don’t really think that it is misongynist to call someone the c-word. Using it in a blog about political makes you look rather foolish and given the response, ruins whatever point you may have made. After the way that moron over at Americablog acted, I would guess that a lot of people those/these circles would be a little more circumspect, but anger is a powerful motivator of stupidity. I know from personal experience but please don’t take my word for it.

    How is bitch not as bad as the c-word? Because it can be said on television? Because gay people call each other it some times? Because we can use it to describe an extremely awe inspiring guitar solo? I guess we all decided to stop being a bunch of bitches about the word bitch in the ’90s.

    Maybe cunt is the bitch of the ’00s.

  • C-

    I don’t have to explain why they are different because de facto they are, and society in general by a massive hypocrite doesn’t win any arguments for ya. I agree though that FDL just went in the A-Blog emu pile.

  • Hey, Pinko Punko, go f*** myselves.

    [That doesn’t look right. Oh well, he asked for it.]

  • Thanks, we will! Here’s a door prize (kick in the pants!)

  • Perhaps this blog just made herstory — AG may be crushing on Pinko while thinking of about a wood cutter, a large tract of land in Alaska and Chuckie.

    UC, PHONE HOME! The readings are all fakakta.

  • I’ll give it a go.

    ‘bitch’ is an attitude, remeniscent of tempermantal hormonal dogs. The metaphor as insult insinuates that women are like dogs that we percieve as angry and snappy. Aside from being not much more insulting than “poopy-head”, it is not untrue 100% of the time.

    c-, p-, a-h-, d-, pr- and dil- are all anatomical and sexual. The metaphor as insult insinuates that there is an inherent wrongness about anatomy.

    Use of the latter terms as derogatory is percieved as passive aggressive (or aggressive-aggressive, depending on context) in a non-sexual sexual assault sort of way. Alternately, because the insulter has some serious bdy issues. Even more alternately, the insulter is just being a chunderdunk to get a rise out of the host.

  • I will try with Chuckles too. The reason nigger and cunt are an issue and dick or honky isn’t is because of differential power. White males are the most empowered class in the world. Followed by males in general. Because of that, regardless of intent by the speaker, certain words are de facto racist, sexist, etc because they are uttered by the class in power. There really is no out with this until the power differential disappears. This is why (black) rappers can use nigger and it is accepted (not by Cosby), but when a white guy does it he better run for cover. Women are on the bottom of the power differential everywhere, even when race is not an issue. Thus using an insult that is an insult purely because it calls someone female is sexist. While the words may appear to be equally insulting (dick/pussy) they are not. You can’t insult up the power chain.

  • In understand exactly what you (mdhatter and fish) are saying about differentials of power. That is EXACTLY what I was talking about before in my comments. The c-word has never to my knoweldge (and that may well be extremely limited) been used as a weapon by an institution bent on oppressing a people like the n-word. In my view, which you are all free to despise, they are not at all equivalent. If bitch and pussy are available for use, then it is just extremely bizarre to remove the use of the c-word. People in the pre-modern times were not running around whipping women and calling them c-words and enslaving them. EVEN METAPHORICALLY, there is no comparison between the c-word and the n-word. It isn’t an institutionalized attack on women everywhere.

    When Aravosis bought it, he used a normal word for little people of the female gender to insult a person of the adult male gender. That is an insult to all the little people of the female gender. BIG EFFING DIFFERENCE. If you are going to remove the c-word from your vocabulary, then you should also remove all anatomical references to avoid looking like a cobag, or possibly an emu. I thought that was the point of that whole exercise in the first place.

  • Chuckles, the c-word represents our existing culture of female oppression.

    I think something is missing in our conversation.

  • Oh Chuckles, shut up and get back under my desk.

  • As an aside, does anyone know how old Pachacutec and TRex are? I’d be curious to know.

  • People in the pre-modern times were not running around whipping women and calling them c-words and enslaving them.

    You’re joking right? Where do you think the custom of the father giving away the bride to the groom came from? He’s transferring ownership. Men owned the women and children in their household and basically could do anything they wanted with them. Rule of thumb and all that means whipping them when they got out of line too.

    I’ve never had a man beat me, but I don’t doubt that men who do beat women scream cunt and other expletives at them when they do it, even in these modern times.

  • Thank you, Donna. Chuckles, EAT IT.

    Serieusement.

  • You misspelled seriemusment.

  • FISH! HOW DO YOU DO THAT?

  • No I am not goddam joking. The oppression of women and the oppression of slavery in America are too big goddam things an entirely goddam different. We still have a long way to go in regards to both but trying to equate the two is just ludicrous.

  • I understand from Donna’s comment that she never uses swear words. After all, if they are said while beating a person then they are out of use.

    Like I said before, ludicrous

  • Chuckles, things don’t have to be the same to be compared, or used in analogous ways. They just have to have some similarity, like a power differential. Also, for the sake of argument, sometimes people use extreme cases when the person they are arguing with seems to not understand at all.

  • I think y’all should fight. Like, really fight, with punching and stuff. I wanna watch.

  • It is funny that you would say that Pinko. For we were both doing exactly that.

  • Yes, except I was closer to “right” than you were. Heh, uh oh. Chuckles gonna smash!

  • Chuckles, whoever said that “bitch” was acceptable? Guess what, it’s not. Most women would be enraged if not scared, depending on the context, to be call a bitch by a man. It’s not acceptable because it’s used, it’s used because society demands words to reflect hatred and contempt for the majority of teh population, we can pry it out of society’s cold dead hands. And the fact that women have tried to reclaim bitch as a term of power rather than a slur of hatred and fear gives misogynists an extra excuse.

    Your whole argument boils down to I’m a guy and I don’t care. You girls never had a real problem whether I know what I’m talking about ot not, so you should just shut up and suck it up and think about how much worse you could have it while I tell you how to think and feel and how it’s okay for you to react. The uses of the terms are functionally the same, and your attitude is exactly the same as a white guy telling a black guy to get over it because the white guy’s family was really poor. It’s just dull to go around and around and waste all this breath only to end up exactly where we started, which is you stuck on square one trying to define other people’s experiences and reactions in a way that suits you and completely erases them.

  • The oppression of women and the oppression of slavery in America are too big goddam things an entirely goddam different. We still have a long way to go in regards to both but trying to equate the two is just ludicrous.

    What does “equating the two” have to do with anything? Just because different words have a similar emotional charge attached to them doesn’t say anything about the historical route that produced that state of affairs.

    Words come with a history, a set of socially constructed meanings, a set of socially determined perceptions. You don’t get to decide what a word means for other people. Period.

    What you think a word means, and how you or your immediate social group use it, are only an infinitesimal element in the overall construction of the meaning of that word. Refusing to make the distinction between:

    a) the vast array of historical, perceptual, and psychological details among the speakers of a given language that determine how a word carrying a charge related to discrimination and injustice operates in that language

    and

    b) your own (possibly) idiosyncratic meaning of such a term

    makes you look like an ass.

    This doesn’t mean that the individual meanings are irrelevant — they can’t be, since the socially determined meaning is just the sum of individual meanings. It doesn’t mean that attempts to alter perceptions about a word are pointless — artists can sometimes shape such perceptions, and activists can attempt to “reclaim” words (though see the discussion of this in the FDL posts at RoD and other sites).

    But no one can simply assert that their own perception ought to be the operative meaning and expect such an assertion to be taken seriously.

    You are never going to convince someone that they don’t experience a word as degrading simply by telling them you don’t think the word ought to carry that meaning.

    So, while “People in the pre-modern times were not running around whipping women and calling them c-words and enslaving them” may be an argument as to why you think that particular term ought to be acceptable, it does not even acknowledge, let alone address, the reasons why people currently perceive the word as unacceptable. And even if it did, it would do precisely squat to change the collectivity of experience that led to that perception in the first place.

    History doesn’t disappear for your convenience.

  • I understand from Donna’s comment that she never uses swear words. After all, if they are said while beating a person then they are out of use.

    Does this mean you never use swear words? I was using your own example, I’m assuming you meant that blacks were whipped called n—– and enslaved unlike women. I’m saying women were/are too, the only part that is different now is there is no more ownership of either blacks or women.

    (Psst… does his convoluted-word-games-passing-for-logic at least occasionally win an argument?)

  • Kids, I can say that Chuckles is a super good person and that we certainly don’t agree on this topic at all, but I know he has discussed more of this at his own place in an extended fashion. Thank you for keeping it civil even though I know this is an emotional topic. We all need to remember that expression in written form is a lot tougher because it is hard to shade what you are saying, and it is not a conversational back and forth.

  • Chuckles: “The c-word has never to my knoweldge (and that may well be extremely limited) been used as a weapon by an institution bent on oppressing a people like the n-word.”

    I know what you mean, but the word is used that way, mostly. Not for oppressing ‘a people’ but or supressing ‘all female people’. ’nuff said there.

    I don’t mean to pick on you, i love the heck out your totally inappropriate uses of four letter words. But there are lines, and they can be crossed. Humor can be percieved as malicious, and FDL made that mistake.

  • plover said: ” You don’t get to decide what a word means for other people. Period.”

    Bingo, Bango, Bongo. 10 ponts.

    all i would add is – but you do get to decide what to do next, once you step in it. Being defensive about such a miscommunication only serves to strengthen their point of the offended party, their resolve to make it right, and their support in going so.

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