Whatever that Thing is That Happens When New Dimensions Are Breached

Just happened.  I can’t even handle this.  We can’t even go back to Patriarchy Blaming 101.  We need to go to pre-Patriarchy Blaming.  I give you Captain Insanity:

Shorter John A:  “When I used “big girl” as an insult, I mean “big fag”, so it’s OK.”

Skippy, I so don’t want to get into this again because every time I try to respond, things get twisted yet again.

I didn’t not initially reply “pissy” at all. I explained that this was gay vernacular, and later explained what I meant by that – the phrase “big girl” is gay male slang for “big fag.” Several folks then erupted and said that was ridiculous, they’d never heard of it, etc. – as if I was just making it up – and then they called me a misogynist, and more – that’s when all hell break lose.

The fact remains that the phrase “big girl” (often written “big grrrrl”) IS gay male slang. That fact doesn’t change because someone hasn’t heard of it. Now, some folks don’t like it, I get that, some find it sexist, I get that too. I don’t happen to agree with them, even if I understand their concern.

But after I explained why I used the word, folks turned rude. Far too many were not simply disagreeing or expressing concern, they were downright rude. And after you enter that territory, you shouldn’t expect a “nice” reply.

And what seems to have hurt some folks more is that I simply don’t agree with them on this. I respect their point of view, but I don’t agree. I happen to believe that sometimes when people think they have a grievance they’re actually wrong, even if they’re good people. I’ve gotten numerous letters from feminists saying they agree with me, the use of “big girl” was fine with them, they got the snark, they got the joke. Are they right? Are you? And who is to decide? Or are those feminists sexist misogynists too?

Either way, things got bad when a number of people started acting rudely because they didn’t like my explanation. They weren’t just complaining, they weren’t just offering a suggestion, they were acting rudely. They were treating me the way you’d treat Ann Coulte – not the way you’d treat a friend and colleague who has already proven repeatedly whose side they’re on.

I respect your opinion, and I disagree.

JOHN

“big grrrl??”  Like Riot Grrrl?  I call NO WAY.  Res?  This is complete and utter ignorance of the situation.

26 Responses to “Whatever that Thing is That Happens When New Dimensions Are Breached”


  • Well if anything his explanation either makes it a wash on the degradation scale or perhaps even worse. The slippery slope was fell upon long ago and he’s made it impossible for himself to win this argument. The only solution is for him to say that he’s sorry with no other rationalization and just move on.

  • Yeah, what is worse than constant degradation. He definitely deletes Pinko Punko. He has not detected “Chutzpah Meter” yet. More later.

  • Jesus. Chutzpah indeed. Hubris, too.

  • I know you don’t usually allow cussin’ on this here blog, but I have to say that that is a giant, steaming load of 100% prime grade Texas-style BULLSHIT.

    Everyone — EVERYONE, gay or straight — knows exactly what he meant. He was calling Roberts a PUSSY. We GOT it. It’s an ASSHOLE thing to say.

    As for the whole ‘gay jargon’ thing, well…I’ve been a big homo for as long as I can remember, and I’ve known a whole bunch of other big homos. Here are the two ways I know to use “girl” in a ‘mo context: a) “Hey, girl, what’s up?” (This is friendly, colloquial, and strictly derivative of the same usage among African American women. It means “you are my friend, my sister.” It is a gentle recontextualization of the way society demonizes us by feminizing us. Variations include “oh, GURL!” and “Girl, his dick was HUGE! (when it’s T3h). Then you have b) “She swears she’s a top, but she’s just a BIG GIRL.” This is, I think, precisely what John meant, and his critics are 100% correct to peg it as misogyny. Talk like that is common in gay life, but it is strictly derivative of similar usage among heterosexual males who might call each other “pussy” or “fag” or “bitch”. It is an unfortunate expression of gay men’s collective anxiety about their status as appropriately gendered subjects.

    I could get all Judith Butler about this, but the point is that John is correct to say that he was using a gay expression, and he was still being a misogynist prick. Not everything in gay culture is all rainbow flags and glowsticks.

  • Also, I saw the chutzpa meter comment….that made me laugh, and I wondered if it was you.

  • Normally it would have been teh l4m3 but he’s been teh abs3nt. I got it going on. we’ll see what else I can muster.

  • WHere is teh, anyway? Daddy no likee!!

  • Pinko Punko: Not only do you got it going on, baby doll, but (continuing with the Tone Loc lyrics) you’re on fire.

  • If that really is a rationalization from John, then I am compelled to call Bullshite. The man asked a question. I’m quite sure he is sorry he asked, but he did indeed ask if there were any other definition of ‘big girl’. The answer, by the way, was yes indeed there is.

  • The guy is a loser. Why bother. Anyone who is so pedistrian and thinks that insulting someone is showing hatred of gays, lesbians and women is not worth the time. He and Patrick Bell are losers. They cannot handle the truth, so they cling to Republicans and 3rd grade mentality.

  • Wow, shovel, meet grave.

    Is it okay to call him a wang? Or a Wang Chung?

  • He just fell out the other side of the world. He ain’t stopping until he hits….Pluto?

    I would never make that joke. I would say that he’s so squishy you’d probably leave a fingerprint if you touched him. On the inside of course.

  • I think Avarosis has lost it. He tries to escape by saying “big girl” in gay vernacular equals “big fag,” which just makes the whole deal worse. To call a straight white male a “big fag” buys into the notion that “fag,” like “girl,” is a term of opprobrium.

  • i think aravosis lost it when he got called out (big time) over the katherine harris thing. this is just the train wreck that won’t quit.

    i will not visit A-Blog anymore.

  • So this one time at camp, I called this girl a fag because I heard older kids calling each other fags. I could tell it was some kind of insult but I didn’t know what it meant. Well, the counselors heard me say and I got three weeks in the hole. When they pulled my rotting carcass out, they asked me if I had thought about what I’d done. I said yeah, but I still don’t know what is so bad about calling someone a fag. Since this was a Christian camp, they tried to explain it to me but never really got farther then, “They are sinners.”

    It didn’t seem all that bad to me, but I could tell it bugged them. Looking back at the camp experience, it seems really funny now. Fag isn’t in my insult dictionary, so does that make me better than Aravosis?

    Because that is all I am aiming for anyway. He is such a giant fag.

    Uhhhh, I mean COBAG! HE IS SUCH A COBAG!

  • Wow, Chuckles, I had a summer-camp counselor explain homosexuality to me as well. But it was less of a counseling session and more…umm….physical education? Arts and crafts?

    I loved camp almost as much as I loved BSA!

  • Wild thread. John Aravosis (consensus: foolish hole), the historical/cultural meaning of “girl”, and summer-camp hijinks. Assuming no one gets hurt or offended, I would pay to see this on TV.

  • We had an archery teacher that sadly was considered “a slut”, she seemed pretty nice, but it also seemed like she took an older camper into her love den. Or so was the rumor. I think that was everyone’s secret desire. Also, the canoeing instructer was such a goddess that everyone just kind of worshipped her from afar. Of course she was dating the surfer counselor, but we all thought “well, he’s really cool, what can you do.” Of course it was my misforture to disappoint her as my canoe partner had a meltdown and hurled his paddle at one of the other canoes while they were shooting the new information video for the camp FROM A HELICOPTER, OVER THE HARBOR, OVER THE CANOEING. Little me, paddling furiously by myself in the back, back to sweet, angry Melon-y. Yes, that is what we considered her. Her name was Melanie. I think you know why. The tiny budding of little libidos. Sigh.

  • Thank goodness my parents saw camp as something for misfortunate children whose parents really didn’t love them. There is no way that AG was “camping”.

  • The fact remains that the phrase “big girl” (often written “big grrrrl”) IS gay male slang.

    Does this mean I can’t use the phrase “big girl” anymore? Like when my baby niece does something sweet and cute, I can’t say “You’re such a big girl!”?!

  • I don’t remember having the hots for any instructors at the Christianic camp. I was a little young for that, I guess. Although at least half of the counselors were female. I was rather disappointed with Boy Scout camp. There were no hot female instructors. Oh. I think I just figured out why Res liked the BSA so much. Well, everybody’s got a right to hot memories.

    I was nine or ten at the time of the fag story. In high school, this guy kept hassling me in the locker room and my mom suggested I call him a fairy. This was really confusing because I was trying to figure out ways to avoid getting attacked and I figured that if I whipped out an insult based around Dungeons and Dragons, everyone would beat the crap out of me. If I was going to call him a fairy, why not go all the way and call him a clumsy elf?

    In some ways, I was a very sheltered little man.

  • THYCWOTI can do what he wants and he knows it!

  • holy damn, what’s with the rash of open i-tags in the emusphere lately?

  • Res, I can leave an open i-tag because aif said I can do what I want

  • okay, enough

    better?

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